Gregory: What is your name?

Ulzana: I’m Ulzana.

Gregory: Your age?

Ulzana: Forty.

Gregory: Your profession?

Ulzana: Uh, I studied accounting.

Gregory: So you are an accountant?

Ulzana: Yes, I’m an accountant.

Gregory:  Where’s your home? Where are you from?

Ulzana: I am from Kyrgyzstan, uh, from the north part of Kyrgyzstan.

Gregory: Alright. I’d like you to remember your childhood for the first seven questions. Any age under eighteen.

Ulzana: Okay.

1.

Gregory: What do you know?

Ulzana: I know that I have a good family. Caring mother. Father is hard working, works most of the time. He is out of the house. I remember I was going to kindergarten and my mother was working there at the time. And I used to get the best toys, and if I wanted to take it home, I could because of mother and no one would stop me.

Gregory: Why?

Ulzana: I got a lot of toys. She was kind of head of one, uh, how to say? Like a director.

Gregory: Uh huh.

Ulzana: If I didn’t want to stay, I wouldn’t and I also had a grandmother, very loving grandmother. And no one could say anything to me. I would do whatever I wanted, and most of the time I was abusing my sister, my one year younger sister.

Gregory: Mmm.

Ulzana: And I would [laughs] I know she didn’t like me, uh, I was spoiled, maybe, because of my grandmother.

2.

Gregory: Describe what this planet smells like.

Ulzana: Okay, like apricots, like foods.

Gregory: Mhm.

Ulzana: Uh, smells freshness, kind of freshness. Uh, especially after rain, a lot of air, cleanliness, so the earth is breathing and giving, uh, and giving a cold feeling.

Gregory: Mhm, and how old are you? When you remember yourself realizing the smell of the planet?

Ulzana: Nine years old, I guess.

Gregory: Mhm.

Ulzana: Nine, ten years.

Gregory: Mhm.

3.

Gregory: How is it possible to forgive the unforgivable?

Ulzana: I was bullied at school by one boy and, uh, I didn’t like him. I didn’t want to forgive, even when I get older, I still remember that one. But at that time, maybe he didn’t have really the knowledge about feelings and he didn’t care about other people’s feelings?. He just, he was a boy, and maybe he wanted to express his, uh, reaction, kind of aggressiveness towards others, so I could for . . . at that time, I didn’t want to forgive, but now I forgave him, so it’s easy. Maybe he had hard time, I mean, maybe he had different kind of attitude at home, or bad relation with parents?

Gregory: How was he bullying you?

Ulzana: He was calling me with bad words, and he was, uh, encouraging other boys to also call me the same way.

Gregory: Was he bullying other kids too?

Ulzana: Uh, no, he did it only to me.

Gregory: Uh huh. And how did it end? His bullying, did you confront him at any point?

Ulzana: No, I didn’t. I just pretended I don’t see him. I don’t pay attention for his words, like it’s not touching my heart. Like I don’t care what he says, what he feels, what he thought, what he thinks about me. Just ignored him.

Gregory: Mhm.

Ulzana: And uh—

Gregory: And in time he stopped?

Ulzana: Yes, he stopped.

4.

Gregory: What makes you happy?

Ulzana: I liked all of us, my family to go to small trip in summertime when it was vacation. I was so excited and I was waiting for this time. That made me very happy. The whole family gathering,

Gregory: How old were you?

Ulzana: I was at school, maybe a teenager. At that time, every summer I was waiting for our trip to go out and camping or, uh, seaside.

Gregory: Any particular summer that stands out, out of all those trips?

Ulzana: Yes, we went with my parents and his friends and his friends had kids. We all went together to a mountain and there was a river and all the parents were also playing and we were also involved. It was really good playing, seek-and-hide, and adults started to throw each other in the water and we were looking at them and laughing. It was good time. We were very tired and we left that place at night and it was really good. And food was also delicious. Family, they were cooking, they were doing some grilling something.

Gregory: How old were you this particular summer?

Ulzana: Maybe I was like thirteen.

Gregory: Thirteen.

Ulzana: Mmm.

5.

Gregory: Describe a world in which God exists and a world in which God does not exist.

Ulzana: Uh, no, I didn’t have any idea about God at that time. I just had certain rules taught by my parents, especially by my mother. Don’t do this, don’t do that, but why I shouldn’t do this and that, I didn’t have any idea. I would not talk about religion, even my parents didn’t have any idea about Islam, just by the time—

Gregory: Were your parents secular?

Ulzana: No.

Gregory: They were religious?

Ulzana: They were not religious. They were not atheist. They knew that there is something, like there is a God, but we didn’t know anything about any other religion, even about Islam. Nothing about Islam, nothing about Christianity, but at that time when I was a kid, I was watching a cartoon, it called Flying House.

Gregory: Mmm.

Ulzana: It was about kids, moving from one time with their house, and, suddenly, they are in different year, different era, different century, and there was something about Jesus that was about his apostles, right?

Gregory: Mhm.

Ulzana: So I got some idea about Christianity and I was interested and when I wake up, the first thing that I see is a TV. Because without TV, it was difficult to wake up, so my father usually switch on TV and put some cartoon. And we wake up because of this cartoon so that we do our work. So the first thing was this cartoon and—

Gregory: So your first encounter with religion was, uh, with Christianity and Jesus?

Ulzana: Yes, right.

Gregory: But then you were introduced to Islam?

Ulzana: I looked for a . . . I started to think, “What is the meaning of this life? What is the philosophy? Why I’m living here? What is the purpose of life?” For each person is different. Someone says the purpose is to get married, someone says to have a baby, someone to be rich, so for every person is different. And I was looking for the answer, what about me? What is the purpose of living in this life for me? I asked my parents, if I don’t want to have a baby, then the meaning of life for me is to have a baby, but what if I don’t want, then what?

Gregory: What did your mom say to that?

Ulzana: She was not able to answer on this questions. “Just be a wife and try to be happy, marry, and have family.” This answer didn’t satisfy me, and I was trying to find out about the religion. Also, I studied something about Buddha . . . About Judaism and other thing. But by the time I got a book of Harun Yahya. He was a Turkish philosopher, and he became very good in Islam and wrote a lot of books on who we are, why we created here, who is God, what is the book Qur’an, and the miracle of Qur’an, and some stories from Bible, which I saw on the cartoon, and I heard about some prophets and heard those names on the cartoon, and here, in this book about Islam, it’s written. Why in this book, in Islam, is written the people which is in Christianity? And I started to dig more and know more and found out that Islam doesn’t reject any other prophets and it still exists in the book.

Gregory: So you’ve done your research?

Ulzana: Yes.

Gregory: And you chose Islam.

Ulzana: Yes.

Gregory: Mhm. Now, tell me this, how old were you when you discovered Islam?

Ulzana: Twenty-five, twenty-six. I accepted and I started to know more and started to learn by heart, know the meaning, what it says. The Ayah, what is the meaning of this Ayah, the chapter in the book and, uh, I learned many stories, which I saw in the cartoon, is exist in the book. It was, for me, a really shocking discovery. More I know, more questions I had, and one by one I got into it, and I realized that this is the one I was looking for. This is the answer for my question why I’m living in this life. So the meaning of this life, for me, is to worship, so that’s why we are here. So after that I became more content, satisfied, and doing my best to practice it.

Gregory: Mhm. And you are still happy doing that?

Ulzana: Yes,  I am. This is really good! Sometimes when I’m in depression and stressed and I don’t know how to solve my problem, I find the answer in Islam. It says just accept it, uh, this is like destiny, you cannot change it. If it need to be, it will. You not have to worry, don’t be stressed, just leave everything to Allah and everything will be okay.

Gregory:  Do you think, if you are depressed, if you’re looking for an answer, do you think you can find it in the Bible or in Buddhism?

Ulzana: Yes, it exists in Buddhism. Buddhism is like, just live in nirvana, like leave this world, and be happy whatever you have, and like, stay away from all this material things. They are happy by their own way, but in Islam, I found the balance. It doesn’t say, be only . . . do everything for the life after. No, you have to take care of this life as well. And in Christianity, I’m sure also there is, cause most of the things that I found in Christianity, I found even in Islam. But some questions didn’t really, uh, weren’t clear for me. Like why God suddenly became three, why son? But in Islam, it says only one god. Nothing, no more, and he doesn’t have a son. He doesn’t need it. He is self-sufficient, and he doesn’t need daughters, or a wife, or whatever. He is alone and he decides, so no one can be the same, equal to him. And all this kind of thing really for me is down to more like logical.

Gregory: Mhm. Now, how about the world without God? Have you thought about it?

Ulzana: Yes, it would be mess because if someone doesn’t believe in anything, they do whatever they want. No borders and they don’t afraid about accounting or someone will be asked tomorrow for what they did and, uh—

Gregory: Could there be moral principles without God?

Ulzana: Yes, so many people are really good, even if they don’t believe in God. They have their own principle, their own rules that they follow, that’s okay, but still at the end of the day, there is something which they cannot explain. If you don’t believe in something, still you ask when you are in a difficult situation. You still keep asking someone for help. But if you know that there is a God, you ask God. But if you don’t know anything about God, they just in difficult situation. They start worshiping stones and ask helps from, I don’t know, sun or moon.

Gregory: So pagan gods?

Ulzana: Yes, pagan gods.

Gregory: Uh huh, and you don’t like that idea?

Ulzana: Better to ask someone who created these things, right? I had a lot of experience like when I really wanted for help, when I really was in deep need, and I truly believed in it, and I ask help, it gives. Suddenly, someone came and say, like offering help, maybe it is, I don’t know that it’s . . . it was sent by Allah, by God. Just this situation itself was kind of like a strange thing, it’s not coincidence. Something happened, like someone planned this to happen.

Gregory: Something happened to you and, uh—

Ulzana: Something happened, like someone—

Gregory: Can you share what happened?

Ulzana: [Laughs] Yes, for example I had, just recently for one, I have many things, but the one which I remember is just small thing, but it was really important for me at the time. There was at work a difficult situation, I was supposed to make phone calls and convince other part of the line to buy and when I was talking my supervisor was not happy. He said, you have to talk loud, to be confident, do this, do that. Every time when someone is standing on your neck and repeating this, it’s really depressing. My self-confidence instead of getting higher, decreased totally. So I was trying to do my best, to be good in what I’m doing, but instead, I was just focused more that if I make a mistake again, he will again say something. So, every day this one is happening and I was thinking to change my work even, because of that, because it was really not easy situation for me. And I prayed, and I asked help, and that day I woke up early morning. I prayed and asked for help. I said, “Allah, help me, what should I do now? I’m trying my best, but it’s not happening.” And in that morning, I got a message from my friend, she was my good friend, and she said, “I haven’t seen you for a long time. Why don’t you come to our center, Islamic center? We have a lecture, now it’s getting really interesting.” “Okay,” I said, “I’ll come.” Anyway, I woke up early, I was supposed to go to work, and I checked the time and it’s enough for me, I can go, and then I will not be late for work.

So once I came and then I sat, what I heard there was a story in the Qur’an and the teacher was explaining it. She said, “Don’t stress yourself.” She’s telling this to everyone, not only to me. I just came and joined. She said, “Don’t stress yourself, if something is not happening as you want it. This life will never be the same how you expect. Even if you try.” There was a story of Musa, Musa is Moses in Christianity. And there was one someone, not a prophet, but someone really important person. And they had this journey and during this journey, the man said, “Don’t . . . just follow me, be patient, don’t ask any question.” And this story and the meaning of the story, the teacher said, “It means even the Musa, Moses, he is a prophet and he failed this test. He was not able to be a good student. This is the nature of humans and you will not be also perfect, so don’t stress yourself. Accept it as it is and just do your best. Just don’t stress yourself.” Like this teacher was telling it to me and this story was exactly to my situation. I realized, really, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. So this is something, like someone planned this. I ask for help and Allah guide me to this center to hear this story, so he gave me a kind of really good feeling in my heart that you’re doing your good, but don’t stress yourself. It’s just a small thing. This is human nature, you cannot be perfect.

6.

Gregory: What is your most vivid memory?

Ulzana: My vivid memory was that I was trying to commit suicide because I was misunderstood. My mother, she told me I’m not perfect, not so good like my cousin. And my cousin was perfect in all aspect. In that time, I was feeling jealous and I was thinking maybe she doesn’t need a daughter. So better let her be good for this cousin instead of me. So I was just selfish.

Gregory: How old were you?

Ulzana: Uh, fifteen maybe, fourteen, fifteen, not sure, but I was a teenager. And also I tried to cut my vein, but it was not easy. I couldn’t. I just, I was holding knife and just couldn’t do it. And I told this to my sister and my sister somehow talked to my mother and she found what I was doing. She tried to talk to me and we solved this problem. On top of that, she was very strict and every time when she was shouting, it was difficult for me to get over it. Maybe all these aspects, maybe all of them had the kind of effect, maybe that’s why, at the time, I was thinking about suicide?

Gregory: So it was your grandma that was spoiling you, when you were little?

Ulzana: Yes, my grandma. I was the first grandchild and I looked like my father and she loved my father. My father was adopted, she loved him as if he was her own child. And she never, never raised her voice. My father was also spoiled child and I was the first grandchild. Just reminding my father, maybe that’s why I was very spoiled. I could do whatever I want, I could take.

Gregory: Mhm, was she alive when you were fifteen when this was happening?

Ulzana: She would protect me.

Gregory: Was she alive though?

Ulzana: No, she passed away when I was three years old, no, four years old. When she was gone, my mother says, she said I was missing her, crying. I didn’t want to, I don’t want to remember too much now.

Gregory: Okay, alright.

Ulzana: Just you know, she was the most closest. Even though I was four years old, still I love her.

Gregory: And you still remember her as the most loving person—

Ulzana: Yes, I remember her. Yes.

Gregory: —in your life?

Ulzana: Yes. That’s why I was spoiled, maybe. [laughs] I was aggressive towards my sister. My sister says, “My grandma, I’m also her granddaughter, but why she didn’t love me like she loved you and why she talk to me like I was a stranger?” Even now she says that. [laughs]

7.

Gregory: What will be the kindest thing you do when you’re older?

Ulzana: I remember when I was a child, my dream was when I grow up, I would adopt all cats and dogs and I will take care of them. [laughs] I was thinking to have kind of a house where all this dumped cats and dogs will live in my house, my place. It was my dream really, just how I remember.

Gregory: Do you have pets?

Ulzana: I used to have a dog when I was at school. My schoolmate gave me on my birthday a dog, a little puppy, and it was totally black and I don’t know what kind of dog is this. She was so cute and my mother usually didn’t want us to keep any dog at house, but that dog was special and she let the puppy live with us. Everyone was in love, but our neighbor shot him, shot her.

Gregory: Wow, why?

Ulzana: Because our dog was a little bit aggressive, didn’t want anyone to let in, always barking, and neighbors didn’t like it, and they asked to chain the dog. But they said, “It’s okay, she’s still small, it’s normal,” but the neighbors didn’t like it, and started to complain and the one who was in front of us, he used to have a gun. He was a hunter and one day when I was coming from school—

Gregory: How old were you when this happened?

Ulzana: I was maybe sixteen, and I heard there was a fire, like a shot, like a gunfire. I didn’t know what it was exactly, but there was a very loud sound and then my dog was screaming and running away from the house. It was not in the house, just in the street and running away, and I was running after I said, “Martha, Martha!” Then, suddenly, she fell down, and then when I approached, hardly breathing, and she died.

So when, uh, at night my father came, we talked about this story that our neighbor killed him. He was very angry and he took his knife and said, “I will go and kill him.” Another problem. We were trying to calm him down and he said, “Okay.” It’s good that there was his friend. His friend could control my father. He said, “Just leave it and we’ll talk tomorrow. Not now.” The next day when he woke up, he went to talk to him, and I don’t know what he said. He apologized, he said, “I did not know it was your dog. There’s just many dogs come into my garden, doing this and that, so I didn’t mean to kill your dog, I just I didn’t know.” He apologized and said he will give another dog instead of this.

Gregory: Did he?

Ulzana: No.

Gregory: Mhm.

Ulzana: We didn’t want to take anything from him. But good my father didn’t kill him. [laughs] We didn’t want another problem.

_

Gregory: Alright, please answer the next seven questions from your present-day perspective.

_

8.

Gregory: What will you carry in your suitcase on the day of departure to another planet (literal or symbolic)?

Ulzana: My parents, and my fiancé, and, uh, my relatives. My brothers, my sister, that’s it.

Gregory: That’s it? Nothing physical? Nothing literal?

Ulzana: No, maybe I can find that literal thing in the other planet.

Gregory: So you’re not attached to anything material?

Ulzana: Not really.

9.

Gregory: How many lives would you like to live?

Ulzana: Two lives.

Gregory: Why two?

Ulzana: One is trial, second one, I know what to do. I know my mistakes, so in my second life, I would not repeat them.

Gregory: And you’re assuming you’ll retain your memory from your first life in the second one?

Ulzana: Yeah, because if I had this experience, that’s for whole life. My thoughts, my knowledge.

Gregory: Mhm, so your soul—

Ulzana: My soul will be also with me.

Gregory: Mhm. And your soul carries your brain, your thoughts, your body, everything. . .  into the afterlife.

Ulzana: Maybe my body will carry my soul, my brain, my thoughts. I think my body will carry, my soul cannot carry. I think my body. My soul is different, my body is different. My body maybe can kind of control my soul. If body goes, then soul will follow.

Gregory: Mhm. And what’s . . . so you think you’ll have your physical body in the afterlife.

Ulzana: Yes.

Gregory: Before your reincarnation.

Ulzana: Yes.

Gregory: And you’ll come back the second time, to this planet, with all the memories from the past from your first life.

Ulzana: Yes.

Gregory: Do you think you need your memory? Do you think you’ll need your memory from your past lives to be a better person in your following lives?

Ulzana: Yes, I need it of course. I need my memory. I need my brain to be with me in the second life.

Gregory: Why?

Ulzana: Because it’s my experience. From this experience, I know what to do, what not to do, and I don’t have to go through all this from the beginning, from zero.

Gregory: Do you think you can make it right in one life?

Ulzana: I don’t think it’s possible. We are human, we always make mistakes. We forget things and better to learn from other mistakes, but until it comes on your head, it’s difficult to be always right, to always do good things, so . . . Just human nature. It’s normal for us to forget something and repeat mistakes.

Gregory: Mhm. And it’s important for you to make things right?

Ulzana: Yes, I try to do things right.

Gregory: Mhm. Does trying count?

Ulzana: Uh, yes.

Gregory: But not as much as actually doing the right thing?

Ulzana: No, no, no. Doing right thing is much more important than just—

Gregory: Trying.

Ulzana: Trying. I think.

10.

Gregory: What should be forgotten and what should be remembered?

Ulzana: Bad things, bad experiences, bad words, bad people, bad actions should be maybe not forgotten but forgiven. Nothing should be forgotten, I think. No, it should be. No, if it’s forgotten the . . . for me, if I forget, then I might make the same mistake.

Gregory: Mmm.

Ulzana: Better for me. Don’t forget anything.

Gregory: Even painful experiences?

Ulzana: But yes, you’re right bad experience, if it hurts, better to forget. Don’t suffer remembering it.

Gregory: How do you learn if you forget?

Ulzana: If this feeling hurts you, better for your soul, for your brain to forget what happened, to be, to have a happy life. Like, what some people had really a bad experience in life, like someone tortured and this person cannot live because they’re always remembering what happened to him or her. So in this case, better forget. Not suffer and live that life.

11.

Gregory: What would you like to know, Ulzana?

Ulzana: To know about anything?

Gregory: Anything. What would you like to know?

Ulzana: Uh, I would like to know if UFO exist or not, so many things about, like humanoid, this kind of strange shape, uh, if UFO really exist. I don’t know if it is, or if it’s true. There is other creator in this universe, but, uh, we know that in Islam, there is a Jinn and another world we cannot see. But UFO, some people can see and they can fly there in the universe. So it’s totally different from what we know in Islam, like not Jinn, but something else, what’s that?

Gregory: What do you think it is?

Ulzana: I really don’t know, some kind of civilization, maybe? Which we don’t know.

Gregory: From another planet?

Ulzana: Yes, we have so many planets, so maybe they exist.

Gregory: Would you like to communicate with them?

Ulzana: No, no, I’m scared.

Gregory: You’re scared?

Ulzana: Yes, I just want to know.

Gregory: Do you think they mean harm?

Ulzana: Maybe if we interfere in their world, maybe they try to protect themselves.

Gregory: But do you think they want to harm humans?

Ulzana: No, I think they are peaceful. As long as we don’t touch them. Like sharks. Sharks are not so dangerous. They are created to clean to ocean, like uh, eliminate all this things which might harm, like poison ocean. But sometimes they attack, if they smell blood. They want to clean water maybe, and they attack. In the same way maybe UFO will not attack, not do any harm. If they exist.

Gregory: But what if they want to clean this planet?

Ulzana: [laughs] Then we will be dead. We are harming this planet.

12.

Gregory: Okay. Describe yourself to non-human intelligent life.

Ulzana: We are, uh, a kind of creation. Highly intelligent, sometimes smart, sometimes stupid. A creation like, can be kind, can be monster. And a creation which is damaging themselves, always not enough for most of us. Whatever we have is always not enough. Always want more and not satisfied with this life. Especially with this politic things. They want power, they want resources of each other. They try to kill each other for money or power. So we are, uh, really not a good creation.

Gregory: Are we doing our best?

Ulzana: Yeah, we are doing our best sometimes, but we are not succeeding in this.

13.

Gregory: What is in the middle between good and evil?

Ulzana: Maybe a mediator, someone in the middle. Not good, not bad, but someone who is trying to balance between good and bad. If a bad like evil is trying to harm, he stop him, or if good is too good, then someone is doing over—which is good—but still no need to get too much. So maybe balancing this good and bad.

14.

Gregory: Where are you coming from, and where are you going?

Ulzana: I’m coming from earth and going somewhere. High heaven, maybe? From down to Earth and trying to go to the sky, to universe. And see this world from up and, uh—

Gregory: What will you discover when you see it from up there?

Ulzana: How small we are, how weak we are, and that we are nothing. With all this power and knowledge, we just small thing which is so tiny in this huge universe. So looking at others from up and realizing that why are we so worried for this world when this is just so tiny, and we’re just nothing comparing to what is there in the universe, and we are worried about resources. Other part is much bigger and beautiful than this which we fight for.

_

Habibi

My life was stuff.
My soul was dumped.
But here it comes—
I am in love.