Gregory: What is your first name?

Amanda: Amanda.

Gregory: Your age?

Amanda: Forty-six.

Gregory: Mhm. Your profession?

Amanda: I’m a freelance translator and a counselor.

Gregory: Counselor?

Amanda: Yes.

Gregory: Where’s your home? Where are you from?

Amanda: South Africa, I live in Durban at the moment . . . and I’m from Johannesburg.

Gregory: Okay. I’d like you to remember your childhood for the first seven questions. Any age under eighteen.

Amanda: Okay.

1.

Gregory: What do you know, Amanda?

Amanda: What do I know? . . . Oh goodness, um . . . life is scary and . . . complicated, and . . . your whole life basically depends on the adults around you. That’s what I knew when I was a child, pretty much.

Gregory: How old are you?

Amanda: Um, eleven.

Gregory: Eleven. Anything else?

Amanda: No.

Gregory: That’s all you knew?

Amanda: Um . . . well, I knew I liked—

Gregory: Even as a teenager?

Amanda: I loved reading and escaping, but [starts laughing] I know this is not going well, I’m sorry! [continues laughing]

Gregory: That’s fine. [laughs]

Amanda: My childhood wasn’t exactly easy or good, so it’s kind of . . . trying to decide which part is fine to talk about and which isn’t. So, [long pause] okay. You said under eighteen?

Gregory: Under eighteen, any age.

Amanda: Okay, okay. So, I’ll go with sixteen, and . . . this part is a scary place because I was abused by my father and . . . yes, I did attempt suicide a few times and . . . I knew adults were . . . not good and I wanted to get away from home as fast as I could, and as far as I could. But life doesn’t always work that easy. [laughs]

Gregory: Was it physical abuse, or mental? Or both?

Amanda: Physical abuse, yeah. Physical abuse more, but mental abuse, too. So . . . and I knew my brother was loved and wanted, and I wasn’t loved, or wanted so . . . it was kind of a crazy setup.

Gregory: Was your brother going through the same thing?

Amanda: No, no . . . no, he was . . . [sighs] um, he was a year older than me, and um . . . no. He always [pause] ow. [laughs nervously]

Gregory: It’s okay, take your time.

Amanda: He . . . did everything my father wanted him to do, so he was always fine, and  . . . he was never in trouble with him because if my father said hit me, he would hit me. It went obviously further than that, but—

Gregory: So . . . your brother was abusing you as well?

Amanda: Yes, on my father’s instruction, so—

Gregory: Mhm . . . what about your mom?

Amanda: She was too scared and intimidated of my father to say anything, really. He was, um . . . he was really manipulative and domineering and um [sighs deeply] no, she just tried to stay out of trouble I think, so . . . she turned a blind eye.

Gregory: Do you think she was abused?

Amanda: Um, no, not really. No, maybe verbal abuse, yeah. I think definitely verbal abuse, but—

Gregory: Was she aware of what was happening?

Amanda: Yes, yes.

Gregory: Anyone outside of your family aware of this?

Amanda: Yes, I told a teacher at this stage and, um . . . they got in social workers and . . . my mother spoke to them and my father spoke to them and convinced them no, we’ll go to a psychologist, and it will be fine. Well . . . it’s all just to calm everybody down, and then they threatened me to keep quiet and—

Gregory: Who threatened you to keep quiet?

Amanda: My father. And my mother because she didn’t want her family to be broken up. She was dependent on my father financially.

Gregory: So they convinced the social workers that nothing’s happening here. That it’s all your imagination.

Amanda: Yes, that they’re getting help and . . . my father’s getting help, and everything is fine in our house and . . . safe and happy. So, eventually, the social worker let it go. Because also, um . . . in South Africa, the social workers are so overloaded. I don’t think they really put that much effort in if they think the situation looks okay, and they just . . . let it go. That’s my opinion, not. . . obviously proven or anything . . . But I felt a bit let down by the whole . . . world, the whole system, the whole . . . everything.

Gregory: And how did you escape from it?

Amanda: I finished school and wanted to go to Varsity, and I got a student loan, but I just . . . the moment I was out of the house, I couldn’t cope with the freedom, I suppose, so I started drinking and . . . as much as I could just to block everything out, but, obviously, it caused a bigger mess, and I didn’t finish Varsity, and . . . I started working and . . . eventually got married, and then, I studied part-time, but . . . oh, I messed up a bit after school. I just . . . drank, drank everything I could to forget, and that’s when I also tried to commit suicide for the second time, um—

Gregory: How old were you?

Amanda: The first time I was sixteen, and I tried to slit, slit my wrists . . . And that wasn’t successful and then, after school, I took an overdose with meds, and . . . they got me in time. But that just made the whole situation worse, because then, you know, you believe everything your father said: “You’re not good enough, you can’t even kill yourself, you’re not good enough to kill yourself.” So . . . yeah.

Gregory: And who saved you, the second time?

Amanda: Um . . . the lady I rented a room from at university. Uh, but then . . . I was taken to a hospital, and my mother booked me out. She said I’m not staying there, I’m not seeing psychologists and psychiatrists. She refused and took me out.

Gregory: Took you out and brought you . . . back home?

Amanda: Yes, yes.

Gregory: Did the abuse continue?

Amanda: Um, yes. Until I left.

Gregory: How old were you when you left the second time?

Amanda: Um . . . nineteen . . . I almost turned twenty when I left, so—

Gregory: And you left for good this time?

Amanda: Yes, yes . . . yes.

Gregory: Mhm.

2.

Amanda: Okay . . . [laughs].

Gregory: Describe what this planet smells like.

Amanda: Mm . . . dusty. Smells dusty. Um, I grew up on a small holding outside of town, and . . . we were um . . . near cornfields and stuff, so there was a lot of dust around. Dusty is the smell I will always associate with my childhood.

Gregory: Mhm.

3.

Gregory: How is it possible to forgive the unforgivable?

Amanda: It’s, um . . . I’ve battled with forgiveness for very long, um . . . but even now if I’m honest sometimes, you know, you battle with anger and . . . when you feel . . . you battle with inferiority and things like that. I have to work not to get bitter against my parents and my brother, but . . . I’m Christian. And I believe that others have forgiven everything in my life, so, I don’t think I’ve got a right not to forgive other people. Because I’ve made mistakes in my life, too. I’ve made big ones and . . . He’s forgiven me. So . . . I don’t have a right to not forgive other people; it’s not my job. I have to answer to the Lord, not to me.

Gregory: Uh-huh.

Amanda: And I think there’s a bit of freedom in that because it’s not my responsibility to hold on to anything against them. Um . . . they make their choices. They have to sort their lives out. I can’t take responsibility for their choices or their lives or anything of them, really. So I have to let them go. And . . . that’s hard sometimes, but with the Lord’s help, we can do it.

Gregory: Mhm. Did you intentionally block all that information out?

Amanda: For me, it was a bit different, I blocked out a lot of stuff that happened. Um. . . I pretended to everybody except one teacher and the social workers that got involved that everything was fine. Because my father was the director of a company, and he was well-known, everybody thought he’s this good guy.

Gregory: Hm.

Amanda: And we’re this wonderful family. And . . . for me, it was just easier to pretend that everything was fine. And that was one of the biggest ways I coped through my life, I think. It’s not very effective, of course. Sometimes you fall down on your face and you can’t cope and you try to kill yourself . . . but, um . . . for me, it worked. I tried, pretended it didn’t happen, and if it overwhelms you and you’re forced to face it, you carry on.

Gregory: How old were you when you realized this?

Amanda: Um, I didn’t even realize I did it; I just knew when I was a child that I had to pretend everything was fine. Otherwise, I would get in trouble at home. So, my whole life was a deception in a sense, um . . . everything was always fine. And, even now if . . . even if I’m having the worst day and somebody asked how I am, I’ll say, “I’m fine.” It’s like . . . so part of me; just my natural reaction.

Gregory: Was there . . . Did you have any friend or anyone next to you who would hold your hand?

Amanda: Not when I was a child, no. Um, my grandmother played a big role in my life. And, she was wonderful. She taught me to pray and she cared about me, but she didn’t know what was happening, or I don’t think she knew, but she did care more, I think, about me than about the other grandchildren. So, she made a big difference in my life. For most of my childhood, she was there, but I never told her because my father . . . one of his favorite past-times was threats like if I would say anything to anyone, he would hurt my grandmother, or he would hurt my mother, and I believed everything he said. So . . . I kept quiet.

4.

Gregory: Amanda. What makes you happy?

Amanda: Reading [chuckles], reading and writing . . . I’m—

Gregory: As a child.

Amanda: I think . . . yeah, as a child, if I could live in the library, I would, because I think it was like an escape, but I didn’t realize it then. But I read any book I could lay hands on, and then I would make up children’s stories about animals and stuff up in my head, so . . . that was . . . I really enjoyed books, and reading, and making up stories.

Gregory: Hm.

5.

Gregory: Describe a world in which God exists, and a world in which God does not exist.

Amanda: Okay.

Gregory: As much as you remember, thinking about it as a child.

Amanda: Okay. For me, as a child, I would think a world where God exists would be perfect, and there won’t be any hurt or pain or death, um . . . nothing bad. And in a world without Him would be bad and pain and fear and death. So, the world shouldn’t be like it is, if the Lord is in it.

Gregory: So, do you think this world doesn’t have God in it?

Amanda: Um, now I know it does, but people make choices to do things that we don’t have control over and the Lord doesn’t have control over, because we all have free will. And He won’t take that away. I want free will, so I can’t blame the Lord for somebody else’s free will; and that’s a battle I only won pretty recently [short laugh], it’s that people’s free will, um . . . the Lord won’t control that and . . . we can’t blame him for people’s actions.

6.

Gregory: What is your most vivid memory, from your childhood?

Amanda: [exhales heavily] Oh my goodness [long pause] okay . . . um . . . I mentioned we lived in a small holding?

Gregory: Small where?

Amanda: Small holding, the . . . plot . . . smaller than a farm, bigger than a normal house.

Gregory: Uh-huh.

Amanda: And um [sighs] . . . oh wow . . . I’m saying things I’ve never said to people [laughs nervously], oh goodness . . . um . . . part of my, um . . . father’s abuse was punishment, a big part of his . . . if he wanted me to do something in an abusive situation, and I refused . . . um . . . one of his ways of punishing me, um . . . [pause] sorry [breathes in and out with difficulty] . . . he had a hole dug on our property that was far away from the house . . . and . . . [clears throat] . . . [pause] and as punishment, um . . . [pause], okay, um . . . if I didn’t do what he would want me to do, he would let me strip naked, and he would get me in this deep hole he had dug, where I couldn’t get out. I was too small to get out of it, and he would cover it with a corrugated iron top-thing . . . and he would leave me there overnight. Um . . . and my most vivid memory is the smell of dust and the ground and . . . [breathes in and out with difficulty] and the fear of the dark . . . [laughs nervously]

Gregory: Could . . . did you try to get out of there, or you didn’t even attempt?

Amanda: The first few times, I was too short because the hole was deep, so I couldn’t reach the top. I had to be pulled out physically, um . . . when I got big enough, I tried to get out, but when you realize that he would stand on the outside and every time I tried to put my hands on top to move it over, he would step on my fingers until I stayed down . . . [voice breaks] I’m sorry [pause] . . . [exhales heavily] I could never tell that to people because they would never believe it, my father is this . . . important guy—

Gregory: Is he still . . . alive?

Amanda: No, no. He committed suicide a few years ago.

7.

Gregory: What will be the kindest thing you do when you’re older, that you thought of as a child?

Amanda: To hug people a lot. To see the people that think they are invisible, to notice them and . . . even if you just say “hi” to somebody that feels invisible, you change their life in a good way, even for that little moment. That’s something I would like to do. To see the people that are overlooked, that other people don’t see. And, in South Africa, we’ve got a lot of beggars, and. . . people living on the streets, and, you know, you don’t even have to give them money always because most of them are on drugs or stuff like that, but just being kind is already such a big thing to them. It’s, it’s . . . and I love it. If you get to know their names, and greet them by name, it’s like . . . almost like they walk taller. I love seeing that.

Gregory: And how old are you when you thought of this?

Amanda: Um . . . probably from . . . eleven, twelve . . . when I started realizing the things people hide . . . and the things that people pretend they’re fine . . . and not everybody is fine when they look fine, and my father was . . . the one time he was particularly nasty to a guy that worked with him . . . and . . . I just remember thinking . . . if he just—the guy made a silly mistake or something—but if he spoke kindly to him, he would have gotten a whole different result, and without breaking the guy down like he was nothing. And . . . I never wanted to be like him . . . I wanted to be the opposite, basically, and not be the mean one, and the one that hurts people . . . I want people to feel better when I’m around, not worse.

Gregory: You’ve succeeded in that.

Amanda: Oh, thank you . . . [laughs] I’m hoping I can . . . make a difference to at least somebody . . . somewhere . . . cause the world is . . . not nice and not kind and . . . any bit of kindness can help people.

_

Gregory: Alright. Please answer the next seven questions from your present-day perspective.

Amanda: Okay.

_

8.

Gregory: What will be in your suitcase on the day of departure to another planet (literal or symbolic)?

Amanda: [pause] . . . People, can I say people? Because I would take my kids, I’ve got two children, and some friends. I’d take people with—the rest will sort out. I would take my two daughters, and . . . three friends. [laughs] Your questions are making me realize how big an impact my childhood had on my life. [laughs]

Gregory: Any sentimental item that you’re attached to?

Amanda: I would take tomatoes with me, and . . . because you can plant their seeds, and I love tomatoes, and then you can eat as much tomatoes as you like. [playfully]

Gregory: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Amanda: [laughs]

9.

Gregory: How many lives would you like to live?

Amanda: On this Earth? Only one. Only one. [chuckles]

Gregory: Mhm.

10.

Gregory: What should be forgotten, and what should be remembered?

Amanda: [pause] I’ve got the same answer for both questions. Um, what should be forgotten is how people make you feel, if it’s bad. What should be remembered is how people make you feel, if it’s good.

Gregory: Mhm.

11.

Gregory: What would you like to know?

Amanda: The future! [laughs]

Gregory: The future?

Amanda: Yes! [continues laughing]

Gregory: What do you mean?

Amanda: Um . . . our country is in chaos and . . . hum, that’s a trick question because if you know the future, you might not want to go there . . . hm . . . no, that might not be the right answer, because I would like to know if our country’s gonna get any better. I would like to know how to . . . fix things more, that can be a good one; how to . . . improve life.

Gregory: In South Africa, particularly?

Amanda: Yes, particularly, yes, and how to get rid of racism and, in general, I think how to fix the country’s problems. Because it affects everybody living here now. I don’t think there’s one person that’s not affected by the state of the country. So if I could know how to fix it, it will improve millions of people’s lives.

Gregory: Hm. Anything else you would like to know?

Amanda: Hmm [sighs] . . . like . . . the what-ifs, but that, I don’t think we want to know, because we might not like the answers. “What if I didn’t do this?” or “What if I didn’t do that?”

12.

Gregory: Describe yourself to non-human intelligent life.

Amanda: Myself, personally?

Gregory: Mhm.

Amanda: Oh, wow . . . you do not have easy questions! [laughs] Um . . . hm. A human, female, friendly . . . safe. I’m a safe person to be around. Yeah, um . . . [short pause] yeah. I think that’s . . . that’s . . . yeah.

Gregory: Mhm.

13.

Gregory: What is in the middle between good and evil?

Amanda: Indecisiveness. Um . . . you can’t make up your mind and then . . . yes-no-yes-no-yes-no, and . . . if you’re stuck there too long, you will go to the evil side because you won’t . . . because you know instinctively what is the good side, so if you debate yes-no-yes no, I think you’re more likely to go to the evil side.

Gregory: Mhm.

14.

Gregory: Where are you coming from, and where are you going?

Amanda: Okay . . . I’m coming from . . . a life with loads of mistakes and hurts and issues and sadness . . . and I’m going to a place of peace, and . . . calm. Where my surroundings don’t have such big impact on—

Gregory: Even if the surroundings are good?

Amanda: Um . . . obviously your surroundings will always have an impact on you, but that shouldn’t be . . . the biggest impact because then you’ll be up and down, up and down, up and down . . . so, if it’s bad, it will affect you, but you can make sure it doesn’t knock you down completely if it’s good. You take the joy and the happiness and . . . enjoy it while it’s there. The Bible describes peace that surpasses all understanding and that’s the peace I’m working towards, it’s not the right word, but . . . which I’m . . . looking for.

Gregory: Looking what?

Amanda: I’m looking for the peace that comes from the Lord, that you’ll always have peace and joy . . . despite your circumstances. And that’s where I’m . . . hopefully heading.

Gregory: Mhm.

_

The Heart

The rhythm it beats out,
Oh, what is it on about?
Calling out to its maker.
Whether it be now or later.